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AMARANTH13's Photo AMARANTH13 Posts: 2,840
8/17/20 11:40 P

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Thank you! That's a good mantra, I will get the support I need. Tomorrow I do the intake with my new therapist, might be too tired after to write much, those things take it out on you!

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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 18,321
8/17/20 12:48 A

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Big hugs! I hope you will start believing that there is no thought nor feeling that is bigger than YOU are, the real you, your heart, mind, and spirit that contain your emotions but that are bigger than your emotions. The real YOU can contain them and let them pass. I affirm you will get the support you need.

Nine years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
10 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


4,235 Days since:  I began the NO S lifestyle
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AMARANTH13's Photo AMARANTH13 Posts: 2,840
8/16/20 11:29 P

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Hi Oolala,
You are right, right now I'm more scared of losing the binge foods than the consequences of eating them. And I know that's just my feelings, it's not the truth, giving up binge foods feels scary because I'm scared of 'bad' emotions. I think that is why I'm really going to need that therapist, I've been eating away overwhelming emotions for 38 years now. It's time to stop running away but also to realize that long of a habit is not going to be gone in a week. I've had therapy almost all my life (almost as long as the binges) but that was always with the added escape of being able to binge too intense emotions away, which made it easier to get this far. But I am now going to need to give up that safety backup so it will make therapy harder and more intense, but I guess I've had a long time to prepare. And I've not always needed to binge, I've had long periods of low carb in the summer that would go really well over over 4 or so months, but with Covid things got even more messed up, and I usually get it back in winter anyways.

Thanks for the tip about vegetables, I have been having about half of what my body really needs but am working on adding them. I don't dislike vegetables, especially salad is good. I like most vegetables raw, which makes them healthier than cooked anyways (like cabbage, coleslaw with no sugar dressing, good, boiled? Yuck! ) I will look up Changing-Turtle on here and talk to her. I already posted on the four-day wins thread, which I wanted to try a four day no binge streak but failed, it is harder in the weekend. I think I have a good chance to do it tomorrow Mon to Thu. i looked to find Jibbie49, the link doesn't work for me and the user I found did not mention her medication success anywhere, so I'm curious what that was?

I was part of a diabetes group on Spark that was led by a diabetes educator who was telling us that low carb was wrong and bad for diabetes and I quit because that was one of the few options I'd had success with. If you can stick to it I am convinced low carb is better, unfortunately, currently I can't stick to it and I've read about some binge eating disorder treatment that no foods should be out of bounds. THat's why I was trying to set 150 grams of carbs but I want to talk to the therapist to see what he thinks, and then with the nutritionist again. The problem with 150 grams is that if I am not super extremely horribly careful to not have a single food that raises my cravings, it goes off the wagon again. That's what happened today, I was silly and had gotten some fruit for the weekend and of course I ate it all at once. Maybe I can find a group working on diabetes where people are openminded, thank you for the tip.

I am hoping that my new eating-disorder knowledgeable therpist will help me deal with the neural patterns that create anxiousness. I also have a medication that helps with anxiousness that my doctor said I could use for things like that, if I wanted. I am not sure if a rescue medication is a good idea there, I need to ask that of the therapist as well.

I agree that low carb is good for weight loss if you can stick to it and for diabetes too, but if it causes a feedback loop of 'never mind I just give up and eat everything in sight' then something less drastic is probably wiser. I want to deal with this high carb/high sugars addiction that I have to be careful with. Fuit is dangerous as I showed myself again yesterday and today. And no, your explanations haven't made things worse at all! They give me good ideas.

The one thing I am sure that I can do is never give up completely, even if temporarily. I will get back to working on it as often as I need to, I -am- going to get better at this! Even if it might take a while.

Edited by: AMARANTH13 at: 8/16/2020 (23:31)
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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 18,321
8/16/20 2:39 P

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I know you are more terrifed right now of even reducing your binge foods than you are of the consequences of eating them. (That is the addictive neural pattern giving you a false alarm, but it feel very real!) I know that kind of pain even though I was never facing such risks. I am trying to be careful what I say because I don't want to make anything worse! You don't need that! But I'll offer a few ideas.

One is just that if you aren't already adding a few servings of vegetables, at least one of them a leafy green, a day, that can be a great start. You aren't taking anything away, just helping bring some chemical balance. Part of you might not be pleased at all, but another part will really like that you get to chew and eat. Mix them in with other food if that makes it easier.

Changing-Turtle on our team has reversed her diabetes even though she still eats some of her binge foods (even overeats at times). She posts just about every day on the 21-day streak; consider getting in touch with her.

For someone-not on our team- who had fantastic results using a medication (not saying you have to go that route, but just because I know it made a huge difference for her in reducing binge urges, making it much easier to lose), consider getting in touch with this member Jibbie49 www.sparkpeople.com/mypage.aspid=JIB
BI
E49


I also gently suggest joining one of the diabetes teams on Spark. Maybe they can slowly help you get the courage to balance your diet more. (If you have someone tell you that you need to do X for your diabetes and you say, "I can't do that because I have an eating disorder," that is making your eating disorder more powerful than your disease. This does not have to be. Many many addicts of all kinds are able to change their addictive patterns because they are able to start minimizing the anxiety of using less with the new health concerns. It may not happen overnight, but it is good to allow for the possibility. Every binger here I know who has gone on to great success felt at one point that it seemed almost impossible that anything could stop the compulsion, but we were all wrong! You can be going towards the light even when you aren't sure what direction you have to crawl in!)

I hope it's okay to say a little more about the urges and fear using OCD as an example. These people get these strong urges to perform a behavior (like bingers get strong urges to eat low nutrient foods) that use neural patterns that create extremely anxious feelings, ones that make the person really believe something terrible will happen if they don't perform the behavior. The urges use survival pathways, but they are mismatched, obvioulsy. They are false fears. Just accepting that it is just a mistaken neural pattern can help make the urges seem less intense (minimizing the "danger,") and the possibility of challenging the urge more acceptable (maximizing the value of the healing practice). (Bingue urges come from survival patterns that "believe" the food is necessary for survival, but we know that isn't true. Other food will keep us alive very well!) The OCD-er is then encouraged to do some kind of alternative activity that is either pleasurable or productive (a distraction). "Rewarding" the urge with a different response starts to change the brain! What also helps change it is later looking back and seeing that the world did not cave in just because they didn't perform the obsessive behavior, in our case, eating excess. This rewires the brain, too. Not easy work, but very rewarding over time.

I know some people have fantastic results with low carb, but it is definitely not the only way and has some evidence of problems later. I don't say that just because I am a starch lover! But I don't eat much refined food these days. I am happy with starches cooked in water, true whole grains. It makes a big difference to the body not to be using the "particle" dried version of the grains. But I also eat potatoes and squashes. You can get a fair amount of those plus veggies in on 150 grams. In summer I eat more fruit, but not near as much most of the year. Fruit just doesn't have the satiety effect that starches do.

Anyway, I like talking about this and keep meaning to put it in blogs I can refer people to. I hope it hasn't made things worse!

I see good things happening with all the resources you are taking advantage of.


Nine years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
10 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


4,235 Days since:  I began the NO S lifestyle
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AMARANTH13's Photo AMARANTH13 Posts: 2,840
8/14/20 12:08 A

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Hi, thank you for your input. I'll admit that the Never Binge Again book which I got as soon as it was out (even if for free) got me very upset rather than feel it could help. As someone who started binge eating to deal with childhood abuse, I felt blamed and did not feel the method had very much compassion. Maybe it has changed, but I would not consider using the program if this is not different at this point (the time I read it was at least 2 years ago, I think). I am not sure what you mean by making your recovery from diabetes more prominent than any problems I've had with eating in the past? Sorry I'm not a native speaker.

I do agree that having gotten diabetes has had me look at my binge eating again, and now finding i am not able to keep my sugars under control because of daily (several daily) binges which basically gives me neuropathy and other problems. With Covid it has gotten way, way worse. Normally I would manage to buy no or very few binge type foods during the weekly shopping trip, and when I felt I absolutely had to binge I would often go get foods in the store, and binges were less (a few times a week). Now I found myself running into the store for it when I can't afford to, because of being an extremely high risk and my partner's risk is even higher. So I buy it now to have it in the house so I don't run into the store and that makes it so much worse... I have resulted to giving it to my husband to dole out, but that puts him in an impossible position.

I would be so happy if it is going to turn out to be possible to overcome in a way that's less painful than living with bingeing, right now it feels terrifying to give it up (I found myself wanting to type 'having to give it up' when in effect it's wanting to give it up, shows me where I am not quite there yet). I hope having contact with my new therapist next week will help me get that straight. I agree that I think for me a plan that makes all foods neutral is not a good idea, and the nutritionist told me that if I wanted to do more than read the three chapters of 'Overcoming Binge Eating' (Dr Christopher Fairburn) then I can do the diabetic diet with 150 grams of carbs, and she told me it is fine to not eat fruit as long as I eat plenty of vegetables. High fiber foods that do not have a lot of easy digestible carbs tend to go somewhat okay. I have had even more success in longer binge free periods by going really strictly low carb and would lose weight too but I can't do it dependently and I fall off the wagon, especially in winter (due to SAD and cravings that are about ten times as bad in winter). And of course then you gain it all back and then some, so it doesn't help the situation.

I'm glad you know people have managed to reverse diabetes with food approaches, that gives me hope. Please don't stress yourself sending more information unless it's easy to fit in your schedule, your answer is already so helpful. I will admit that I'm not there yet to believing it is always totally in my power to resist, but I'll do my best to keep an open mind! Again, thank you for giving me so much of your time.

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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 18,321
8/13/20 9:27 P

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Happy to meet you! Sorry this is such a struggle. I do not mean to undercut your therapy but there are approaches that acknowledge that healing emotional issues often does not solve the compulsive eating. I myself am at the very beginning of a training program for coaching binge eaters through Dr. Glenn Livingston, who has the free book Never Binge Again available on Amazon. He also has an online program available just for the eating issue. Because of this program, I would caution against any theory that tells you that you cannot make your recovery from diabetes more prominent than any problems you’ve had with eating in the past. The majority of people who give up addictions do it because something else in their life makes them view the addiction differently and ultimately worth changing for. That drive that seems to be so powerful that it makes you keep choosing to overeat, especially of certain foods, can be viewed in a way that makes it much more possible to overcome than is often presented. It is not painless but it is way less painful than living with bingeing. It certainly does not involve making all foods neutral, which many eating disorder programs do, an approach that scares me for people who have an active illness that is so adversely affected by modern processed foods, though it would still be up to you (and your nutritionist, if you have one) what limitations to aim for. I have known of people with terrible eating problems reverse diabetes with approaches completely opposite from each other and everything in between! The most important thing was that they chose a plan and stuck to it, even when it was hard.

I have some thing that I think is important to add, but I’m doing this on my phone and it’s turning out to be unwieldy. It will take me a little bit but I’ll switch to my computer and find some links for you. I know this sounds simplistic, but I’m going to say that in the meantime, Believe that it is always totally within your power to resist even if it doesn’t feel that way right now. I believe in you!




Nine years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
10 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


4,235 Days since:  I began the NO S lifestyle
0
1062
2125
3187
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AMARANTH13's Photo AMARANTH13 Posts: 2,840
8/13/20 6:48 P

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Hi, I've been a member on Sparkpeople and this group for a long time, but I'm finding myself giving things another try. I was in an intensive outpatient group for three weeks for mental health and during that I realized that I really have to start working on my BInge Eating Disorder. Therapists always said that it would go away once the issues were gone, but that never happened, and the issues were never totally gone either. I have several pretty serious diagnoses but right now the binge eating is causing me serious harm because I'm already an insulin needing type 2 diabetic.

So I'm going to be working on it with a therapist experienced with eating disorders and also a nutritionist with experience. I was wondering, have others done treatment and how did it work for you? Do you have any tips? I am finding that though I'm motivated and am trying to plan healthy but non-restrictive meals, I am binging like normal, and can't seem to stop right now. I have not seen the therapist yet though, and the nutritionist gave me a book title and told me to read a number of chapters, but she can't help me every two weeks as normal because of COVID and everyone is confronted with these problems now. Instead I see her again Sept 28, urgh.

I have the experience that if I cut out sugar and low fiber carbs that I can do it for a week or two, but even that is a problem right now, and that's an all or nothing thing and I don't think it will help me. Losing weight seems to only happen in the summer, and though I know losing weight should not be a focus during treatment, I do need to lose a whole lot of weight if I want to be healthy. I am curious if others experience their binge eating disorder as a low fiber high carb/sugar addiction instead, I almost never binge on protein. The nutritionist said it was fine to cut out fruit as long as I ate enough veggies.

Edited by: AMARANTH13 at: 8/13/2020 (18:53)
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