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JD394471's Photo JD394471 Posts: 30,113
6/29/20 9:38 P

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James,
I did read the post but have not had much time to concentrate on it, since I worked all day at the Community Kitchen. I’ll study it more soon.
I did raise my calories yesterday but still have a ways to go, and more to learn about it. But I am working on it.

Donna from Iowa

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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 16,173
6/29/20 1:22 A

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JD394471,
have you seen the "8%" list topic, ... my first post? It lists pretty well what it low enough carb without heavy calculating and thinking.

I've taken Dr. Fuhrman's idea to heart. His book has the fuzzy equation:
HEALTH = NUTRITION / CALORIES

Duh? He means get the most nutrition at the least calorie cost. A few things pop straight out of that. Sugar has no nutrients of any kind, just calories, so sugar scores zero. The more sugar like something is, the lower it scores. But there are so many nutrients there is no right answer. You need protein, you need vitamin C, you need zinc, ... but his idea can guide you.

The more sugar, the more carbs you add to anything, the more you add calories, but not nutrition. Sugar is pretty clear. But lets take breaded chicken as an example. Chicken is great, it has protein, not a lot of fat, but it has protein. What if the chicken is breaded? That dilutes the HEALTH score, as it pretty much just ups the calories. Here is the nutritiondata website's information on breadcrumbs:
nutritiondata.self.com/facts/
baked-pro
ducts/4880/2

You will see that there are many nutrients, minerals, etc ... and bread crumbs, are low in just about every nutrient.

When it comes to eating Keto, I am your thinking man, (caveman?). I'm always focused on nutrition. Its not Keto for Keto's sake, its nutrition. Turns out that Keto itself cuts out nutritionally empty calories like sugar and bread.

But getting your daily needed nutrients (and there are many) can be done with not so many calories, and what then? You still haven't gotten enough calories for the day. What to do then? More what? The Keto answer is, once you've met your daily nutrient needs, eat more fat to up your calories.

Daily nutrient needs can be met at a fairly low calorie value if you pick foods carefully. But I think the calorie range where that can be done is too low. That is actually good, because it gives you wiggle room in what you eat.

James
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6/28/20 9:05 P

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I had to concentrate on what I could eat to keep my mind off what I couldn’t. Bacon and cheese are my biggies...

Holly
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JD394471's Photo JD394471 Posts: 30,113
6/28/20 8:18 P

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Hi James,
Thank you for welcoming me. I know this team will help me a lot and both you and Holly have already. I am working hard to eat more calories, and all the food groups and am pleased with my progress today.

Holly, I am pleased I can eat the rollups.


emoticon emoticon





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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 16,173
6/28/20 4:25 P

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Hi Donna! (JD394471).

A fair bit of eating Keto is counter to other ways of eating. Some other diets avoid eating fat because it has so many calories, certainly per gram it has the most.

But the goal of eating is not get eat the most weight of food. The goal is to nourish your body, and not be hungry, and eating Keto does that.

I agree with NIGHTSKYSTAR on the calories. Eat too few and your body becomes very efficient with what it has. I've not experienced it, but I'm convinced that eating more, like 1800 to 2000 not only lets you eat more, I think your body becomes less efficient with what it is given, more wasteful, and in the end I think you waste more than the extra calories you ate.

Yes, I eat some peanut butter, but not a lot, like a tablespoon. More in a bit.

James
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6/28/20 3:55 P

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you want sodium!! if you ever are feeling not so good, drink some powerade zero, salt water, salty chicken broth. some drink dill pickle juice, i cant choke that down.
check your lunch meat..some add sugar. if you can get it without thats the one you want!!

i do the roll ups all the time..usually with roast beef slices as they seldominject beef with sugar. i did find some store brand turkey this past week with no additives.

Holly
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JD394471's Photo JD394471 Posts: 30,113
6/28/20 3:01 P

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Holly, Thak you!
You are so helpful.
Another question, what do you think of turkey or chicken slices (lunch meat) roll-ups, with cheese in the middle;e? Will the sodium make a difference? They are filling.

Donna from Iowa

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6/28/20 2:49 P

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i dont know what dorothy lynch is? i use olive oil and vinegar. but any fatty dressing works. be careful of balsamic vinegar..many add sugar, and even if they dont its sweet and higher in carbs. wine vinegar has virtually no carbs.

Peanut butter. Peanuts are a legume not a nut. Legumes are not considered keto food but lots fit it in. I love it so much i have a tiny amount here and there. i make my own. i throw plain peanuts in the food processor, add a little salt and let it rip till it turns into peanut butter. I keep it in the fridge and it doesnt separate.

almond, pecan, or walnut butter would be safer choices. even then, VERY tiny quantities. nuts are very high in carbs.

on the jello.i believe it has malitol or maltodextrin in it. both will spike your blood sugar higher than table sugar!! i would suggest you get some knox gelatin powder, mix it with a little erythritol and orange flavoring. while you dont want too much sweetener of any kind, this is way better for you than the malitol or maltodextrin.


Holly
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6/28/20 1:06 P

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Holly, I love your ideas. I will have to get some fatty dressing as I usually just eat Dorothy Lynch.
Is peanut butter o.k. to eat?

I usually just drink water. Lately, I have had hot water with 2T. of sugar-free orange jello in it as I have an auto immune disease in my gums and it tastes good.

You have me excited. Thank you.

Donna from Iowa

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6/28/20 11:41 A

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thats most likely your problem. You body sees you are starving it, and its not going to let you lose. Calories in calories out does not work. if it did we would all be thin.

try this:
breakfast: 2 eggs, 2 slices bacon, cook the eggs in the bacon fat and some butter.

lunch. meat, cheese, butter. have some lettuce if you like, but keep to one cup, and do dark green leafy like spinach or romaine, not iceberg. use a fatty dressing..and plenty of it.

dinner. meat, and a salad is fine, stick to no more than 2 cups. add cheese, and a fatty dressing. If you have chicken, be sure to eat the skin. beef or pork, eat the fat. you want a lot of fat. cook everything in butter, olive oil or coconut oil. if you are hungry, have something fatty..cream cheese, hard boiled egg with butter.

what are you drinking? soda, even diet, can derail you. some people can have zero sweeteners without it effecting their loss. if you have nuts, they are a big culprit.

some lose slower than others, it really depends on the amount of damage you have done to your metabolism from low calorie diets.

we are here for you..you CAN do this...

Holly
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JD394471's Photo JD394471 Posts: 30,113
6/28/20 11:26 A

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I know I do not ear enough calories.
I eat so little- like bacon and eggs for breakfast, if I ea breakfast; a salad at lunch with chicken salad or other meat; and at dinner; a piece of chicken usually; a salad and that is about it.
I am so discouraged right now. I have probably 50 pair of jeans I need to beable to wear again



Donna from Iowa

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6/28/20 11:16 A

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Hi Donna!!! if you could either message me with your menus or post them here if you are comfortable, we can take a look. heres the basic keto plan..

under 20 g TOTAL not net carbs a day
50-60g protein a day
120 g fat minimum a day.

no lower than 1800 cals

you are new so i would say get the carbs low first, and the fat high. and worry about the protein later.

Glad to have you with us!! we are here to help and support you!

Holly
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JD394471's Photo JD394471 Posts: 30,113
6/28/20 10:30 A

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I started Keto coupe of weeks a go and have not lost any weight. I am discouraged and just do not knowwhat to do. Can you hep me?

Donna from Iowa

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KATHLEEN624 Posts: 7,969
6/27/20 2:37 P

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JUDY - Try avoiding any foods that are fried or spicy three hours before bed. Also going to bed with a full stomach causes that to happen also. Hope you find relief soon.



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6/19/20 2:54 P

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anytime!! Reflux sucks!!

Holly
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JUDYWARD2's Photo JUDYWARD2 Posts: 3,525
6/19/20 2:26 P

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I haven't tried the books. That's a thought. I do have 4 pillows I stack up and try to sleep sitting up. Not very comfortable.
I'll try to stop eating sooner. Also, thought I'd have less greasy food as my last meal. Tonight I'm having chicken tenders.
Thanks for your help.

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6/19/20 11:42 A

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Judy i have reflux. my kitchen closes at 7. period..and many days earlier than that. if you get 2 books, the same thickness, and put them under the legs at the head of your bed that helps, too.
but really, i havent had trouble since i quit eating by 7.

Holly
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JUDYWARD2's Photo JUDYWARD2 Posts: 3,525
6/19/20 10:24 A

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Thanks James. Okay, here's a new problem I had last night. ACID REFLUX. I woke up around 3:30 am with acid in the back of my throat. HORRIBLE. I couldn't lay down again until around 7:30 am. Any suggestions how to avoid this again? Before bed I ate the Fat Mousse.
Thanks. (Thank goodness I have Nexium on hand. I took two pills.)

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6/19/20 5:49 A

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Thanks James ! And Night ! You are a good encourager, explaining concepts so well. Formyself I need to keep reminding myself . Self you did not arrive st this state of less than optimal health in a few days but already so many good health markers have improved do not focus on th few that lag behind . Good suggestions to cut goals into smaller pieces. This makes goals less intimidating and increased the numbers of successes. I want to lose 43 lbs. I am going to focus on the next 3 . To reach one of those landmark numbers. Also a house Skirt I put on yesterday is comfortable to wear now . It really never was before. I think I should visualizing a jigsaw puzzle for my path to improving health. Many pieces are missing now but eventually I will see the whole picture . Thanks again

Edited by: BABCIATEA at: 6/19/2020 (06:54)
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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 16,173
6/19/20 2:04 A

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Judy,
the focus in this world is too much on calories. Certainly too many calories is not good for weight loss, but the calorie source is critical. The approximate values are these:
- one gram of fat, 9 calories
- one gram of carbohydrates, 4 calories
- one gram of protein, 4 calories

You get the feeling that to get 36 calories you could eat 4 grams of fat (4x9 is 36) or 9 grams of carbs, and it would be the same. It's not the same at all. Fat is digested slower, and keeps hunger more even. Eating carbs that have the same number of calories, raise blood sugar, insulin lowers it, sometimes so much that you get hungry in short order. Plus your body can't build anything from carbs, it is just pure energy. Protein on the other hand is just more flexible, burn it for energy, or build muscle and tissue from it (same for fat, burn or build).

That is why I'm suggesting a higher fat snack, like cheese.

Also, body chemistry is kind of like athletic performance. It takes a while for your body to more easily burn fat. You have to "train" your body, and that takes weeks. Body chemistry has qualities that take a while to change. To make an analogy ... people who lift weights have trained their muscles. The can lift a lot, and their muscles don't hurt so much afterwards. If I tried to lift what they lift either I couldn't do it, or I'd hurt myself. How long did it take for them to train their muscles? Did they take up training in weight lifting and find they could lift a lot more after a few days, or a week or two? No, its a long process.

Eating Keto, and not being so hungry, and loosing weight is similar. In my opinion though, the biggest changes happen with about a month, so stick with it!

James
Alberta, Canada


All time highest weight : 217 pounds

Starting weight : 195.0 pounds (June 7, 2012)
Final weight : 168.2 pounds (July 23, 2013)


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6/18/20 9:36 A

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suggestion..dont look at the big picture on the weight. look at 5 pounds.

Had i looked at the whole 160 i needed to take off i would have just tossed in the towel. Instead i focused on losing, literally, a pound. i had screwed up my metabolism so badly it was hard to lose an ounce, from years of starvation low cal diets. i was terrified to eat the fat...sure it would clog me up and i'd drop dead...but i promised my kid i;d give it a shot, and i started reading. lots. from all different sources..and i soon figured out which were hype and which were trustworthy

every day i would go to the bakery and be afraid i'd try the buttercream and be lost...or have a cupcake and that would be it. after all, it always was before. and i had to endure well meaning people constantly telling me all that fat was going to make me sick, and what did i mean i didnt eat fruit and hardly any veg any more!!! i learned to keep my mouth shut, tell NOONE about keto, just smile and say no thanks i just ate and i'm full when stuff got shoved onto me. when my well meaning mennonite neighbor brought me a plate of cookies i smiled and thanked her..and passed them on to my stepdad. it was a process...but once i got over that hump, it became easier and easier.

Holly
Northern NY
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JUDYWARD2's Photo JUDYWARD2 Posts: 3,525
6/18/20 9:14 A

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I hope so. I really need to get rid of about 50 lbs. I don't want to have a heart attack or a stroke. (Both run in my family)

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6/18/20 8:52 A

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Judy it will take a couple weeks of really strict keto to get the cravings and hunger gone. add fat. add butter to EVERYTHING. bacon. etc. do NOT worry too much about the protein the first few weeks..get yourself into ketosis and then work on the numbers. very low carb IS important to do now, next comes upping the fat....last worry about the protein. once you get into ketosis you will find it much easier.
Hang in!!! you can do this!

Holly
Northern NY
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JUDYWARD2's Photo JUDYWARD2 Posts: 3,525
6/18/20 8:40 A

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Okay, I'll give the cheese sticks a try. Last night I had the Fat Mousse that Holly mentioned. It was good and I was able to sleep. I'm still trying to figure out how to add calories when I've met the carbs and protein for the day. I did buy a couple jars of black olives. I'll keep watching what you are eating everyday. Hopefully, I'll catch on. I hate to give up. I haven't even made it a week yet.

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MAR_V3's Photo MAR_V3 Posts: 1,367
6/18/20 7:23 A

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I agree with James. At first I couldn't get to sleep because my stomach felt empty but since I've been keto adapted I no longer have that problem.

Marby V
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-JAMES-'s Photo -JAMES- Posts: 16,173
6/18/20 12:30 A

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JUDYWARD2,
lots of good advice here. What struck me were the questions about how many calories you are eating in a day. To a point lowering calories aids in weight loss, but somewhere around less than 2000 or maybe 1800 and its counter productive.

To make an analogy with money ... lets say you do contract work, and you are getting less and less work to do, and so less and less money. What do you tend to do? You get very efficient with your money. You buy on sale, you learn when the grocery store has 10% off on the first Tuesday of the month, when the movie theatre has its half price ticket day ... you get the same things, but adjust your behaviour.

I think the body does the same sort of things.

Pickles as a late evening snack? 100 grams of those have just 2.6 grams of carbs, ... it works as a Keto food that way, but only 12 calories. The nutritiondata website thinks one pickle spear weighs 35 grams, so 3 of them about 100 grams and about 12 calories.... No wonder you were still hungry.

A cheese snack, like one of those individually wrapped cheese sticks, is about 20 grams (a lot less weight than 3 pickle spears) but has about 80 calories and 7 grams of fat ... that is what I'd go for as a late evening snack.

Long run I think your hunger will become more even, and snacking less hunger driven. Long run I'd suggest 3 meals a day in about a 9 or 10 hour window.

Edited by: -JAMES- at: 6/18/2020 (00:32)
James
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-SPIRITSEEKER2-'s Photo -SPIRITSEEKER2- Posts: 32,103
6/17/20 4:35 P

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thanks for the info !! sounds delish if needed - I also hate doing dishes and landlord wont let me get a dishwasher

Fluffy in SC

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6/17/20 3:04 P

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I've got it made and in the fridge. I'm planning on having it tonight for my before bed treat. I tasted it and it's very good. I did put the chocolate cocoa in.

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6/17/20 2:08 P

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i think you will like it!! mess with the measurements..i just estimated. i just dump stuff in till it looks right i hate doing dishes..LOL!

Holly
Northern NY
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6/17/20 1:55 P

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Thanks for the info Holly.
I'm making the Mousse right now. In case I think I need a sweet treat tonight. LOL

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6/17/20 12:45 P

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Judy thats the time frame that works for me. and no i dont snack..3 distinct meals a day, as suggested by the experts doing the studies, and showing the best results. some suggest you do ALL your eating in an 8 hour window, that doesnt work for me AT ALL. you will see some suggesting fasting..it stalled me and many others, and it took me close to 3 months to fix the damage i did with it. There is evidence being collected that fasting can slow your metabolism as your body sees it as "starving" and holds on to every calorie. its a personal decision.
Your time frames may need to be different.

I'm wondering if you arent in the habit of snacking before bed and it isnt true hunger but a want. If you are eating enough, getting enough fat, etc, I am surprised if you are hungry. Many experts on nutrition, not just keto plans but any, say to eat breakfast as your largest meal, lunch medium, and dinner much smaller. again, for me? nope. i'm the other way around.

remember on snacking..every time you eat ANYTHING you are spiking your blood sugar. creating an insulin response, which you do NOT want, therefore the suggestion of the 3 distinct meals rather than smaller meals and lots of snacking. I did an in depth course through Dr Arrone, who is well known for his success with really difficult case diabetics who have huge trouble controlling their blood sugar. When i took the course, I was NOT on keto, hadnt even heard of it..but one of the main things i took away from it (i'm not diabetic, was trying to lose weight..and he is renowned for his work in that, also) was the insulin response. There were diagrams of tall hills and low valleys, and the visual was this squiggly line with high ups and way lows..which is what we do to ourselves when we dont eat for long periods, and the highs were the normally carby meals and snacks.
He said its nearly impossible to lose weight or heal your body as long as you are creating the tall hills and valleys, that you want your line to stay as level as possible..therefore, the very low carbs at each of the three meals, will show a small spike but not the tall one. and whereas fasting would bottom you out with no food, having a reasonable length between meals will drop the line, but not way down.
It made a lot of sense, is totally backed with research and data and double blind studies, and his success rate is phenominal..so I trust him. I wonder in the years past if he has done work with keto.

anyhow. do check your calories...i have a feeling you arent eating enough to satisfy yourself. and you are right...chips are NOT a good thing..in fact, if it was me i'd toss them and not buy more. cant be tempted if they arent there!

if you find you really have to have that snack at bedtime..have some keto mousse made up..its fatty and delicious and a little goes a long way..

i do this in my magic bullet.
1/3 cup heavy cream
1-2 oz softened cream cheese
2 teaspoons swerve sweetener
any flavoring you want
if you want chocolate, couple teaspoons unsweetened cocoa.

whiz in bullet or blender till cream is whipped and mixture thickened. thats it!
keeps well in the fridge for a couple days..will thicken more and turn mousse like,,,

Holly
Northern NY
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6/17/20 12:10 P

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Ivory, believe me, I would LOVE to sleep more. But, since I've hit the "golden" years, I can't sleep. I go to bed early enough, but can't fall to sleep. One reason is I have a constant ringing in my right ear. It keeps me awake. In order to get any sleep, I have to listen to my Kindle to drown out the ringing. Then I'm awake around 5 am. Once I wake up, that's it. Can't go back to sleep.



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6/17/20 11:59 A

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So, if I'm reading these correctly, you guys eat then have around 4 to 5 hours between meals?

Do you snack between the meals? I'm still trying to figure out what to fix for myself. It's just myself that I am cooking for. I have to fix regular food for my hubby. He thinks I'm nuts for trying this.

Last night I had 3 Kosher dill pickle spears before bed. That didn't fix the hunger pains. So, I cheated and ate some potato chips. (I know, very bad). Should I eat light during the day and have the eggs and bacon at night?

As for the calories... I don't know. I'm not paying much attention to them. Just trying to eat the lower carbs and protein.

 current weight: 178.5 
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IVORY1825's Photo IVORY1825 Posts: 9,267
6/17/20 11:57 A

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What sticks out to me is "I get up very early and stay up late."

No matter what diet you are on, lack of sleep causes your body to look for and crave food, even if it isn't required, often related to stress hormones. I'm know I'm starving when I fail to sleep. You might need to do a sleep audit and balance that out before any food related changes would even be warranted.

No day but today ...
-Jonathan Larson - Rent

"You have to laught at yourself, because you'd cry your eyes out if you didn't"
Emily Saliers - Indigo Girls

~Melissa/Ivory

Co-Leader of Living Healthy with Insulin Resistance/Low GI Diet
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 current weight: 165.2 
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NIGHTSKYSTAR's Photo NIGHTSKYSTAR SparkPoints: (834,917)
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6/17/20 11:42 A

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i agree with Hollycali.


I have breakfast at 8 oor 9...then work till i;m hungry..usually 1. then i have supper around 6-7..and i'm in bed by 9, reading or watching a movie. my kitchen closes at 7..period.

are you eating enough calories? you shouldnt be less than 1800...if you are cutting cals that could be part of your problem.

Holly
Northern NY
EDT


 Pounds lost: 179.2 
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HOLLYBARKER1 Posts: 3,727
6/17/20 11:29 A

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I used to have that problem. Then I adjusted the times I ate lunch and dinner. Lunch around 2:00... Dinner 7:30.... . Eating dinner later helps me stay full. I lay in bed and read til midnight (my tummy would think it was time for another meal) Eating dinner later worked. I too can not sleep when hungry... if I absolutely can't sleep I eat one string cheese or whatever cheese I have available. Filling and satisfying.

Holly-Ca

This is Not a diet, it is a new healthy lifestyle.

Holly
Fremont,
California


 current weight: 140.0 
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JUDYWARD2's Photo JUDYWARD2 Posts: 3,525
6/17/20 11:06 A

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I am having a problem with being hungry at bedtime and I've already consumed all the carbs and protein allowed.
When do you eat breakfast, lunch and dinner on the Keto diet so you aren't cheating at night. I can not sleep when I am hungry.
I get up very early and stay up late.
HELP...
Thanks

 current weight: 178.5 
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